Little Black Flies

[doug]

Hi,

I've been freezing all the scraps going into my bin for a few weeks. However, there are still a ton of very tiny black flies crawling all around in the bin. They also apparently get out through the air holes in the side of the bin (I put a plexiglass top on the bin with no airholes, which has prevented them from flying around in the air outside the bin a lot), and every couple of days I'll find like 100 of them, mostly dead lying on the table immediately outside the bin. (I'm a fly fishermen, so it reminds me of what we call a "hatch". )

So the plexiglass has reduced the flies from flying around outside the bin pretty well, but is there a way to kill off those flies still in the bin? They seem to be thriving.

I need a WMFD (Weapon of Mass Fly Destruction).

Thanks,
Doug

PS. The bin is in my basement, thus the need to take out the flies.

[t]

make a fly trap with beer or viniger. fill a jar about 1/2 full and put it in the bin the fly will go to it and fall in and die. Also cover your bin with wet newspaper this also helps as they can not lay eggs or slows them down a bit.

[theinfamousj]

I, too, freeze all of my scraps. Well, all of the vegetable and fruit ones. I've got my first fruit fly infestation and I think, based on where I saw them first emerge, that they came from a slice of pizza that the worms were given. I didn't freeze the pizza because I figured the cooking process would have elminiated fruit fly eggs. Ah well, live and learn.

But for what it is worth, I'm there with you, Doug. :: solidarity ::

[Jay Blair]

Apparently doug lost the URL of our site here so he posted on our now back up site at

groups.yahoo.com/group/wormturns/


As a means of possibly getting more input on his topic for him and broadening the discussion group coverage, I thought importing the threads here for ready reference would be more effective and convienient for all involved in our group.

I will also export the content of our discussion here to the back up site to maintain thread growth on this topic there in the event active participants there cannot access this site for some reason.

The thread content on black fly infestation from our back up site on pots #256 -264 is:

From: Doug Breault <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed Oct 5, 2005 5:34 am
Subject: Little black flies taking over my basement dougbreault



URGENT TRANSMISSION: Little black flies from my worm
bin are taking over my basement. Fly traps with
vinegar are not catching enough of them, they're
multiplying like mad. Worm bin is about to be ejected
to the outdoor compost bin and banned forever... New
England winter is almost here, not sure how the euros
will do out there. I almost don't care at this point,
there are so many flies buzzing me.
END OF TRANSMISSION

From: "Frank Teuton" <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed Oct 5, 2005 8:13 am
Subject: RE: [wormturns] Little black flies taking over my basement frankteuton



There are typically two types of flies this could be, fruit flies, and fungus gnats. Insectivorous nematodes will help with both, and the Bacillus thuringiensis used for mosquito larvae control , subvariety israeliensis, also attacks fungus gnats.



Mary Appelhof refers in her books to fruit flies as a problem she did not have a sure fire solution to. If you decide to evict the worms, do it as leaves begin to become available and make a large pile, at least 3 feet by 3 feet by 3 feet, to insulate the worms from the cold. I know this works for Eisenia fetida, but have no experience with Euros.



I am pursuing a marketing program for people who want worms outside in their compost bins, typically black box plastic types; these bins are too small to overwinter in the north, so you have return business every spring. I sell worm cultures by the square foot rather than separated worms, which is easier on everyone.



Hope that helps,



Frank Teuton


From: Chip Hughes <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed Oct 5, 2005 9:06 pm
Subject: Re: [wormturns] Little black flies taking over my basement thisisside5



Doug,

If these are Black Soldier Flies, they're usually an indication that the
bin is too wet. Try mixing in some dry bedding to balance out the
moisture. I've not experienced them personally, but I'm told that all
is not lost. Their larvae compost just as the worms do.... the worms
are even supposed to like their poo.

Chip

From: CHARLES BARKER <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu Oct 6, 2005 7:22 am
Subject: Re: [wormturns] Little black flies taking over my basement chuckiebtoo


Yes, BSF's are very desirable for OUTSIDE bins, and I have them in all of mine. They are excellent composters, will eat food before a worm will eat it, and the worms do eat their waste. I've occasionally had the larva get into an inside bin, and the flies are extremely inoffensive and easy to swat. They will go to a window trying to get out. They live only a short time as adults and never eat during their adult lives. That being said, I understand your desire to part ways with them.

Why not separate the worms from that bin and leave the larva infested one outside. The larva really are remarkable composters.

Chuckiebtoo

From: Doug Breault <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu Oct 6, 2005 7:09 am
Subject: Re: [wormturns] Little black flies taking over my basement dougbreault


Interesting, they have seemed to grow more numerous
since I put a plexiglass top on the bin. It makes it
like a little sub tropical terrarium in there. I'll
remove it and do as you suggest, thanks!!!


From: "Archie & VI Newby" <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu Oct 6, 2005 9:53 am
Subject: Re: [wormturns] Little black flies taking over my basement fishingboati...


Doug
last summer I built a wooden box 6 Ft.. x 4 Ft.. with a top and bottom put contains of one plastic worm bin into it when the leafs fell on my property I filled the box with them to see how they would weather the winter here in Ottawa Canada at the middle of April when the snow was all gone I lifted the lid the bedding under the leafs was still frozen so I started watering it 2 times a week when it was thawed I was surprised at the amount of worms that was found, it seems that they were able to survive the cold winter
Archie

From: CHARLES BARKER <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu Oct 6, 2005 11:58 am
Subject: Re: [wormturns] Little black flies taking over my basement chuckiebtoo


BSF actually generate moisture in a bin that is otherwise ideally hydrated
for worms by their mere presence and, shall we say, dining habits. You may
as well move the bin outside now because the BSF, if that's what it is, have
established themselves. I would salvage the worms, if you're still interested in
them.

Chuckiebtoo

From: Doug Breault <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri Oct 7, 2005 7:45 pm
Subject: Re: [wormturns] Little black flies taking over my basement dougbreault


Hi All,

I pulled that tiny black fly infested bin outside and
started counting out worms. The good news is that the
suggestion you guys gave me to reduce the volume of
area the worms have so that they will multiply faster
seems to have worked. There seemed to be a lot more
worms in there than last time, and many of them were
really big and fat. Also, one pair of worms was found
right in the middle of mating (I think), all twisted
up in a knot.

When I dug down deeper into the bin, there was a
pocket where there were some egg shells and some
composting food... it was *swarming* with those tiny
black flies. There had to be a thousand of them, no
exaggeration.

I plucked out 100 worms and put them in a smaller bin,
putting a cloth over the top. I'm hoping that cloth
keeps the flies from being able to do their thing.

Thanks for the help. The bin still lives, for now!

-Doug

From: "Kuznles" <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri Oct 7, 2005 11:04 pm
Subject: Re: [wormturns] Little black flies taking over my basement kuznles


Hi Doug,
Those black soldier flies will also chase out any house flies that you may have and I have been told they will also get rid of mosquitoes. I don't know about mosquitoes, but I do know they keep the biting flies and house flies away from my place.
KuznLes

[chuckiebtoo]

A BSF larva-infestated worm bin is an extremely desirable outdoor asset. Eventually, the advantages become apparent in that the larva ingest vast amounts of foodstuffs WITHOUT THE NEED FOR DECOMPOSITION TO BEGIN as worms require. The worms THRIVE on the composted BSF excrement. The larva are, if you will, an enhancement to all worm activity...both composting and reproduction.

If you have an indoor bin infestated with them, harvest the cocoons and worms and convert it into an outdoor bin. BTW, speaking of bin harvest, the only efficient method, if you're harvesting on a small scale, is to extract the worms and cocoons by hand....any mechanical method is simply counterproductive.

Like me, slowly you will, hopefully, evolve into a BSF devotee who uses them as a tool to maximize the worm populations.

The adult BSF is really inoffensive, lives only a short time, and wants nothing to do with us.

Chuckiebtoo

[JudyA]

A 'hatch' is probably what you are struggling with. The description sounds something like fungus knats, but usually they aren't in 'flocks'. What we used to call oats bugs fit that description, especially finding layers of the dead ones.

Applying some of the suggestions to trap them should help. They may dwindle in number by nature, but an inside bin encourages them. When they move into house plants, they will seek you out and hover in your face. They like the carbon dioxide of your breath. When they get into a houseplant, I have had some success discouraging them by adding a drop or two of dishwashing detergent to the water.

Covering the food will help. Feed in pockets if heating is a worry. Then the worms can move to a bin environment that is comfortable for them. Keep freezing the food and hold back on feeding for a few days. These critters have a life cycle of about 5 days. If you can break it by interrupting a breeding cycle, you can cut back on them.


For fungus knats, a sticky trap is often recommended. Also putting a layer of pea gravel on the top of the plant. Gravel isn't practical for the worms, but the sheets of damp paper might just be the ticket. Allowing a couple of cellar spiders to exist near your bins will catch some of them, but not all during and after a hatch. The spiders have been most useful to me for fruitflies. Real fruitflies will be around as long as there is fruit present. Other people and the web have told me over and over that fruit flies mean there is a rotten thing somewhere in the house. I would declare NO WAY, then find the potato or apple that fell down in behind a box. Getting rid of that and settiing some traps of vinigar, catsup and bread with a cone in the top of the jar would get rid of them. There is a trap pattern on the internet. Just search for fruit fly.

[thisisside5]

At this point the best "first" step would be to positively identify just what it is that you're dealing with. Everyone here is taking their best stab at telling you what they are and what to do, but it's all cruft until you can say exactly what the little buggers actually are.

Check the Invertebrates page at HappyDRanch.com ( www.happydranch.com/invertebrates.html )
to see if anything looks familiar.

Let us know what you find....

[doug]

Ok now you guys have me curious. I checked out that Happy D Ranch link to try and figure out the fly type. They weren't there. The soldier flies were much too large. These things are really tiny, little black flies... maybe gnats would be a better word.

Here's a picture of them:
<img src="http:\\www.worldtyers.com\images\tinyBlackFliesWithGuitarPick.jpg" border=0>

and if that doesn't work, here's a direct link:

<a href="http:\\www.worldtyers.com\images\tinyBlackFliesWithGuitarPick.jpg">
http:\\www.worldtyers.com\images\tinyBlackFliesWithGuitarPick.jpg
</a>
and if that doesn't work, here's the link to cut and paste:
http:\\www.worldtyers.com\images\tinyBlackFliesWithGuitarPick.jpg

the photo is terrible as far as detail, but it will at least show you the size of the little buggers. That blue thing in the picture is a normal size guitar pick. The globs of black are many of them. There's no dirt in the picture, just all flies (or gnats, whatever they are). Trying to get a better picture...

Going from what someone mentioned at some point about using cheesecloth, I cut a piece of a shirt to cover two new smaller test bins. (The bigger bin is now outside.) If the smaller bins keep the flies away with the shirt material over the top, maybe that's all I'll have to do. (As I type this, one of those flies just dove into my iced coffee and another one is on my monitor screen (my office is in the basement, with the fly bins. )


See ya,
Doug

[Jay Blair]

Right click on above picture for full sized view

Doug,

Could they be a type of fruit fly? Perhaps you could capture some and take them to your county extension office for their staff entomologist to identify for you.

Hope you don't mind that I copied your photo through my photo host to generate code that works in conjunction with our board here for ease of viewing of your sample.

[theinfamousj]

I think doug''s code would work, too, if he used [ img ] and [ /img ] tags instead of < img > ones. BBCode, and all that.

Also, \ = bad, but / = good.

I used to be quite the webmistress in my day.

Edited to Add: Microsoft IE automagically corrects for wrong facing slashes, but the rest of the browsers seem to refuse to. Or at least did way back when I last cared.

[doug]

You mean... um... talk publicly to someone about my worm collection and flies... um... hmmm.... er I dunno... lol jk. Thanks for fixing the pic. My camera stinks, I can't get a better shot of the flies.

Per your suggestion, I would like to get the flies to someone who can tell me about them. I have a buddy who is a biologist, I guess he should know. Otherwise, I'm not sure where the nearest extension office is, I'll shoot to get around to following up more on this after fixing my boat motor, painting the house, fixing the toilet... (long ugly list)

Thanks,
Doug

[JudyA]

I still suspect some sort of hatch. Fungus knats shouldn't be around in such crowds. They will probably go away on their own, but are irritating and I get great satisfaction from making traps for them! Do they seem to be attracted to anything the way fruit flies are? I built slightly more complicated traps than the internet shows with the cone in the top of a baited jug. The fruit flies I had could crawl out unless I made the cone really tight and taped the top of the jar shut around the cone. I baited with bread and catsup. (The first time I learned about these traps, someone thought they were good for barnyard flies. A cut away milk jug, water, vinegar, sugar and a banana peel. Other varmints (I suspect raccoons) tipped them over and made off with the banana peels. Sometimes they didn't spill the juice, but stole the peels anyway!)

[tt]

well i found a new way to get rid of them or at least new to me. It seems a half full cup of coffee with coffee cream in it they really really like. faster then the ussal methods. anyway i now have half full cups every where as i have had a fly bloom sinse i brought sxme extra worms in my house.

[germanbini]

I'm adding the word "gnats" in this post for people who are looking for that option (since I didn't think of spelling it "knats" when I was looking for bugs or bug info.